Some of the area churches have a hymn sing on the fifth Sunday. The song below was sung by a lady at the last event. Following the song she received an immediate and enthusiastic standing ovation from everyone in the audience (I was the exception.) Here’s the song:
I don’t know where to begin with this.
• “We want America back, from those who have no self control”
What does that even mean? Does that include the buffet at Golden Corral? I mean, none of you can really lay claim to the petite label. I wonder how they would have viewed Jesus… The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ (Luke 7:34)
I think the most horrendous part is the speech in the middle; I’ll just mention one of the first points because I can’t sit through this again.
• The condition of our schools
War zones? Really? You don’t see the difference between school sanctioned prayer and individual prayer? Do you even have children? Has anyone in your home school co-op ever seen a public school? 
I’m tired of this “Us versus Them” mentality that so many Christians are sporting these days. People with this mindset are about five minutes away from stockpiling guns and beans and then referring to their places of worship as compounds.
Damn those wild eyed, drug addicted, god help us, gun carrying teenagers! I passed by four of them heading to the cafeteria just the other day
Clearly the best way to spread the word is to exclude as many people from your group as possible.
Ahem, I was there not sitting with you. A truly painful song, specialy seeing that no one stood up for any of the songs about God. Yay! Ameer-i-ca
@Brent she sang it again at this last hymn sing and everybody was even more excited about it than when you were here. I had forgotten you heard “live”.
I want A-meeri-ca back! Actualy I’d settle for the Church back, from them. Really? I almost barfed the first time, a second rendition would be truly horrible. Note to self, next time I visit I’m bringing rolaids.
Wow, I wonder if they realize that when things go “bad” they do so not because the bad people are doing bad but because the “good” people do bad.
Check into it and Sodom and Gomorrah went bad because they weren’t generous and that led them down the wrong road.
I have a sudden urge to go out and punch kittens.
Oh, lawdy, there’s that Public School Warzone mentality coming out of me again. Mothers, lock up your daughters.
I like how the ironic use of obese people to illustrate our lack of self-control.
Equally illustrated by my unjustified use of ‘how’ in the previous sentence. If I would have only backspaced a few more times.
I stockpile guns… Doesn’t everyone?
So I finally got a chance to actually watch that video (first noticed it while I was in a class)… WOW
Sorry Christians, you cannot want back what you never had. The very first amendment in our constitution gives us freedom of religion.
I only began to accept certain aspects of Christianity after others stopped trying to make the choice for me. This song is an assault on my intelligence, and if I had ever heard this in church when I was younger, I do not think I ever could have accepted anything.
You want America back? Do things Jesus did (I hear he’s someone we’re all supposed to look up to). He was a pretty likable guy. Why aren’t other Christians the same way?
As the pastor, aren’t you allowed to call bullshit on stuff like that?
Yep… but only if my red mana is high enough.
@ Danny – I probably should add that this instance didn’t occur at my church so there wasn’t much I could do except feel really awkward about the situation.
Brandon, so what is your standing on this then, are you looking more at the people that are singing the song rather than the words. I was at the event in question and the lady that sang it was actually a part of the holocaust children. That’s what impressed me most, when a non-native american would chose to sing about america.
I am tired of the us verses them mentality also, but bashing a little old lady for singing a song that is dear to her in a church gathering is not going to help. I know that this is not shown in the churches but if it was I can only imaging what kind of a reputation you would get around this area really quick. I can only recommend being very cautious about what you say about people publicly, especially the people that support you. They might not be at your particular congregation but I guarantee that one day this you will regret.
I would love to get together with you to talk sometime. I met you at that hymn sing. I am the 6′10″ former Pastor from Mt. Union. Please drop me a line at my email of Nontrad@gmail.com and maybe we can get together to discuss this more or just get to know each other more. I hate to say anything negative about someone I don’t know.
I’m not sure it matters who you are if we can get the church to give a standing ovation for some vission of “America” that has never exisited and yet everyones firmly in their seats for any of the songs that are sung as praises to God, somethings wrong. We are not called to be Americans, but christians.
I agree with Brent. I can’t speak for all Christians, but I usually go to church to worship Jesus, not the Red White and Blue calf.
Doug, I believe you are missing the point here. The criticism is to the content (or message, if you will) of the song, not to the individuals singing it.
It’s hypocrisy like this that makes it so difficult for understanding and compassionate Christians in this society. Commentary such as this is the source of so much of the ardor that the Church receives for almost facist views; putting ourselves upon above the unwashed dregs instead of helping them.
Growing up, I was a part of this “Public School Warzone” and I can say that extending my hand to non-Christians as a friend and equal was a lot more effective than doling out forms of segregation, damnation, and self-righteous justice.
And next time, I hope that you do better than posting deceptively veiled threats on relatively public forums. I do not believe this behaviour does right by our Savior.
Also, if I may ask, you refer to yourself as a “former” pastor. Might I inquire as to the cause of your leaving?
I think your accusation of “bashing a little old lady” is completely unfounded. I think you will find upon actually reading what I wrote, was that I have significant problems with the content of this song and not the lady who sang it at the “hymn sing”.
I find it hard to understand what is wrong with thinking critically about material presented in a church setting. Make no mistake about it, a song can teach just as much as a sermon. Do I not have a responsibility, as a Pastor, to evaluate that message critically? You have somehow confused the message and the messenger, accusing me of “bashing a little old lady” when in fact I was dealing with the content presented in a public setting.
Not sure what you are finding so bad about this song. Why is it wrong for people to be concerned that God is being pushed out of everything?
I’m a 5′ 9” former pastor and I think your analysis of the content of that song was right on. Keep up the good work.
Bridgett,
Very briefly here are a few of my problems with the song, from a Christian perspective.
1. This song views America in a way that is simply not correct. For example the comparison to Sodom and the bit in the middle about prayer in school. It’s simply not correct. See the above link about prayer in school.
2. This song presents a wrong view of culture. Culture flows from the hearts of the people within it. If you want to truly change something in regard to morality in our culture an angry song is much less effective that the transformation that is found in the Gospel.
3. This song has the wrong attitude in regard to dealing with those who are outside of the church. We are not to be angry and hostile toward those outside of the church but we’re to love them and reach out to them. This is what you see Jesus doing throughout his ministry. This song, in it’s tone, implies that it’s the church vs. the bad people that are destroying America. Jesus’ harshest words weren’t directed toward “sinners” but toward religious people. This song does the opposite.
I listened to the song again after reading your comment Brandon. I did see it a bit differently after looking at a different point of view. My view is that America IS heading down the wrong path. But we certainly cannot fix it by berating people outside the church. I did hear a little bit of this in the song after listening to it again. But it seems like the main point of the song is to encourage christians to stand up for what is right. However, we do need to do that in love and by example. We should also pray for our leaders as it says in I Timothy 2.
To all the interesting comments, I will add mine. I think many of the comments come from our own backgrounds and age groups. My generation has always responded well to a rallying cry about, and whats gone wrong with America. Not that we want to decry how bad America is, but we are saddened at the changes that we perceive have dragged down our culture. We truly would like to see a turn around for the better as we might define it.
Now as to the proper place to voice the rallying cry, and the tone, and attitude, my generation has not always done so well. Thanks for reminding us that we need to do it in a way that those who disagree will find palatable.
Hmmmmmmmmmm…………….. This would be the second time I’ve been exposed to this logic. I don’t know how I would feel hearing this sung in public, I think there are scriptual aspects that wouldn’t happen at one of our “song fest’s”. I would question the “womans role bondry.”
It shows that when you open the door, anything can happen. A few months ago I watched some stuff on
U-Tube, some christians singing “I’m A Soul Man” and trying to dance, I had to wonder where the next line would be drawn.
Remember that it’s not our business to determine if they are right or wrong, Teach the people in your circle a better way to present the gosple, and how we shouldn’t be cought up in this way thinking. Do what you belive is right, teach what you belive is scriptual. Pray that God will be merciful to us all.
Just a thought, and remember this and five dollars will get you a cup of coffee!
Brandon,
I apologize if you think that I was attacking you for your comments. I just wanted you to take care in what you post, as well as I know see I should also. Words mean what they are meant to mean at the time they are used, kinda thing. Critical thinking…examining this song I think you will find that that it is simply trying to get people to see that we have lost to many battles to those who want to do away with Christ in our Society/Country. I hear a cry for people to change, not a cry for people to take up arms and harm people. I hear a plea for Christians to once again stand together and show Christs love to those outside His church. I hear a man/woman singing/speaking of the realities of the world around us today where Prayer in public schools use to take place before each class started and the Bible was used to teach out of in public school, but you would not remember those day, and neither would I. Culture I would beg to argue with you does not flow from the hearts of the people it is taught, passed down from generation to generation and it can change. If culture as you purpose comes from the hearts of people then I see this country going a lot farther away from Christ and His teachings very fast. Brandon please understand I have no intentions of arguing with you but I love a great discussion. I see you have so good readers and if they want to join that is fine but Culture flowing from the heart is well….. I agree that the transformation found in the Gospel is what is needed, but when we can get our country back to the Biblical Principals that this country was founded on and not the principals of politically correctness then we have accomplishes something. I pray for Christ to give me the strength every day to face the people that have taken this country of ours and made it into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah.
Anger and Hostility get us no where when approaching those outside of Christ, but I also never read anywhere in the Gospel where Christ held his tongue from telling the truth.
Doug,
Do you really want the Bible to be taught in public schools? Who’s interpretation of it?
Doug, I appreciate you coming back to clarify. I too, enjoy a good discussion. There’s a lot in your comment I’d like to address, I’m finishing up a more through post reg. some of these issues, it should be up sometime today.
Danny,
I would love for the Bible to be taught in public schools by qualified teachers of the Bible. Now with that being said, what is a qualified teacher of the bible. Well for our public schools and for what maybe you and I would consider qualified might very well be considered two very different qualifications. Also if in our country at the state that we are presently in were able to teach the bible I am positive we would according to political correctness have to teach the Koran as well as other religious texts. Which would open up a whole other can of worms. My comment was to remind us that at one time in our great country all of our schools including Harvard, Yale and other notable colleges taught primarily from the Bible as their text. I know that to return to this would mean to overcome an almost insurmountable task of reformation but I know that if God wants this to happen it can and would. I also think though that we are living in a time where a majority of the people that call themselves Christian have no clue as to what that really means. Most In my thinking, again my thinking, use the term Christian and then follow the culture of the world around them rather than Biblical Principals. In other words I see to many people declaring to be Christians and doing the exact opposite of what Christ would have them do, and yet declaring that this is what Christ would have wanted.
I can see Brandons view on the song as being to strong against the US as it is today and not allowing the Love of Christ a chance to take hold first and foremost, but I can also see the side of those who have come through so much change in the last 50 years that they are tired and don’t know exactly what to do so they lash out in song or kind like me on a web posting.
[...] America! HalleluYeah! Posted on February 24, 2009 by Brandon This post is a follow up to “Something is wrong with America… It’s you.” The video for the song referenced below can be found here and the lyrics [...]
Doug,
When you sort out how to have the Bible taught in public schools, I’ll be interested to hear. But if you think about that for 5 minutes you’ll see that it would never work. Christians in the same church can’t even agree on what the Bible means, so how could a community of Campbellites, Methodists, Catholics, Baptists, Mormons and nonbelievers ever agree on how to teach the Bible in their school? Let the schools teach kids about reality and let the churches and parents teach kids about religion if they want.
Doug,
You mention the change that has occurred in the last 50 years, do you think that is the result of more people being “immoral” or is it more people being open about what they are already doing?
I tend to believe the second, it’s not so much that people are “sinning” more but rather “more openly”.
I agree that it’s simply more open. But, the fact that it can be much more anonymous now might be a factor to make it hard to quantify.
While 50 years ago is pretty much twice my life ago, I would say that “being immoral/sinful” may simply be more accessible (but not necessarily more prevalent) than half a century ago. Skim through the top 100 trafficked sites on Alexa (www.alexa.com –> Traffic Rankings).
If youpr0n existed 50 years ago, would it be used? Probably. The intent was always there, so nothing’s really changed. If anything, it’s just they don’t have to feel embarassed about going to the local gas station to pick up a skin mag. But if it was considered in the first place…?
(Apologies if this comment might be a bit disjointed; I kept getting distracted =o)
I would go so far as to say that the acknowledgment of sin is an improvement over the last 50 years. Did not Jesus help those who came to him, admitting their sins so they could repent? Only when I can admit my sins can I accept the help I need, and a culture that does not drown me in shame for trying to repent certainly makes the process easier.
I agree – I think a lot of Christians try to whitewash their lives because of the feeling you describe. They feel like they have to hide their difficulties and struggles because of what people will think. Instead of receiving the help they need, they just find a lot of judgment.
Brandon,
Referring to your statement that people are being more open. I can not say, I do know that the people that I know from that era that I talk with are not more open, but more appalled at what is going on today. I would agree that people today are more open, but to say that the people of that time were in some way hiding their sin and that we are now more open with our sin to me is a stretch. The judgment that I keep reading about I know to well, it exist in our churches today and has existed form many years if not from the beginning of the church, I blame this on human nature, nothing else, certainly not on Christ or anything He did or said.
People who judge others will some day face that same judgment, but if we are honest with ourselves we all judge one another to some degree. It’s just to what degree to we allow ourselves to be known or a better way of saying this is how do we allow ourselves to voice our judgment of others.
In our churches today I have seen to many people turned away because one or more people have decided to voice their judgment upon others without thinking of the consequences of their actions. Am I saying they should quietly pass judgment on others and say nothing, it may sound like it, but that is not my point. God knows our hearts, He also knows at what point we take action on those things that we silently say to ourselves. He will I think also judge us on these actions, but more harshly when we act upon them rather than when we do not. I could be wrong but I hope that I am not.
Judgment is one of those subjects that drives people away from Christ when it should draw us nearer to Him.
Danny,
Is the Bible not reality to you?
Doug,
In my opinion, the Bible is 100% man-made. It’s a real record of some ancient cultures, so I think it should be preserved and studied, but not taught as if it were all true. Like every other holy book, it’s a mix of good ideas and bad ideas with some fantasy thrown in to keep things interesting.
I used to believe that it was inerrant, but the more I read it and read about it, the more I knew that was impossible.
Danny
Doug,
Perhaps my question should have been, do you think people are more sinful now than they were 50 years ago?
My point is this, I don’t believe that people sin more or sin less in any given period of history, I do believe, however, that people are more open about it at some points in history than in others.
I don’t think anybody is blaming this judgment, you speak of, on Christ but rather on those people who claim to follow him while hiding their own shortcomings and looking down on others.
I don’t know if you’ve had a chance to read the much longer response to this song/the issues the song raises yet… I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on my long winded and more detailed post. I think it address much more clearly some of the issues you have brought up in the comments. It is located here.
Also Danny has written up his Religious Autobiography you can find the beginning of that on his site here.
Doug,
These people who are appalled are what I believe the problem is. Christ lended a hand to sinners. He accepted sinners for what they were because Jesus knew the hearts of men can change. To be appalled at someone who admits his sin will do nothing to fix the problem. If we believe our world is too full of sin, then should not we accept our sinning brothers so they might change their ways and turn to God? Acceptance never starts with condemnation.
Brandon,
On culture, you said something to the effect that it starts or comes from the heart and gave Luke 6:43 as a reference, I would ask then what does Romans 12: 2 refer to when it states “And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. ” is this not where culture would begin, with the renewing of the mind?
Doug,
The word heart is used about 900 times in Scripture and is used in several different ways, I’ll just deal with two.
One way is in regard to our emotions (or what we feel). Examples include places like Luke 24:32 (our hearts burned within us) and Philippians 1:7 (I hold you in my heart), there are more but for the sake of saving space I’ll limit myself to those two examples.
The second way “heart” is used in Scripture is to describe the sum total of our being. The essence of our total inner self. This would include our intellect, emotions, etc… You can see this illustrated in numerous passages like:
1 Samuel 16:7 – “The Lord looks at the heart” (From the context this is not speaking of Eliab’s emotions but rather the total of who he was)
Proverbs 4:23 – “Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life”
Proverbs 27:19 – “As in water face reflects face, so the heart of man reflects the man.
Acts 15:8 – “God knows the heart”
I could keep going (from both the Old and New Testaments), but my point is this, culture flows out of our heart which is the sum total of who we are, it includes our feelings, our thoughts (the mind), our desires, our will, all of these things.
When I speak of a transformed heart I am speaking, ultimately, of the doctrine of Regeneration. (Ezekiel 36:26, John 3, etc…)
Danny,
I have read your story, and I have to say I am impressed with your writing, but saddened by the results of your search for the truth of God. I pray that one day you will return and find a church that is not so…….well legalistic and turns you away. I can only say I am sorry, and that I will pray for you.
Doug,
Thanks. I appreciate the prayers. While I don’t think there’s anyone on the other end listening, it’s a nice sentiment. I can’t rule out returning to Christianity, but I have a lot of questions that would have to be answered first.